AnnmarieHost Annmarie Caño speaks with academic leaders at Wayne State University to learn how they have developed their careers while empowering themselves and others.

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Episode notes

Sara Kacin is the director of the Office for Teaching and Learning at Wayne State University. Beginning July 1, 2020, she is also the university's assistant provost for faculty development and faculty success and the new host of EmpowerED to Lead. In this special episode, Kacin explains how kindness is key to leadership and emphasizes the importance of meeting people where they are. Departing host Annmarie Caño also shares her parting thoughts as she prepares for a new chapter on the West Coast.

About Sara Kacin

Sara Kacin is the director of Wayne State's Office for Teaching and Learning, where she leads a team of online learning specialists and instructional designers to deliver programming that enhances teaching at the university. In 2020, she is taking on an additional role as assistant provost for faculty development and faculty success.

Additional resources

Follow EmpowerED to Lead on Twitter @WSUFacSuccess.

Transcript

Annmarie Caño:

Welcome to EmpowerED To Lead; a Wayne State University podcast for academic leaders who are committed to empowering their community to succeed. I'm your host, Annmarie Caño, associate provost for faculty development and faculty success at Wayne State.

Annmarie Caño:

In this podcast, we'll explore the personal journeys of academic leaders, both current and emerging, to learn more about how they've developed their careers. We'll speak with faculty and staff about their work and how they have empowered themselves and others along the way. By doing this, we hope to empower listeners like you, as you continue on your leadership path.

Annmarie Caño:

Today, we're speaking with Dr. Sara Kacin, director of the Office for Teaching and Learning. Dr. Kacin has been with the OTL since 2012, supporting faculty and staff by delivering programming to enhance quality teaching at Wayne State. Dr. Kacin leads a team of nine, including e-learning specialists and instructional designers, and is known for her compassionate and collaborative leadership. On July 1, I will be departing Wayne State and starting a new role as Dean at Gonzaga University.

Annmarie Caño:

Dr. Sara Kacin will also be the assistant provost for faculty development and faculty success, so this marks a transition in the podcast where Sarah will be taking over and hosting. Welcome to the podcast, Sarah.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

Hi Annmarie. Thanks so much for having me today. I'm glad to be with you.

Annmarie Caño:

Great. So you have a lot on your plate these days at the Office for Teaching and Learning with the transition to remote learning, and so you might've answered this question differently before versus now, but let me ask it; what do you love most about your role as director?

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I really love meeting and talking with people. One of the core values of the OTL is, meet people where they are, listen, talk, find out what they might need, and offer them a couple of solutions or suggestions that they might need, moving forward with their work. That's essentially why I love doing that part of my job. I appreciate collaborating, brainstorming, thinking of fun, new activities to do in the classroom. Most importantly, there's just something really fun about when you're in a meeting with colleagues and somebody comes up with a great idea and you can just see it all over their face. Sometimes we get chills. It's just really, really exciting to have that type of a team environment to work in.

Annmarie Caño:

Starting July 1, you're adding a new role, which is assistant provost for faculty development and faculty success. I'm wondering if you could say something about what you're looking forward to in that next role, or in the additional role, actually, because you'll be still the director for Office of Teaching and Learning.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

Yeah. I'm really excited about that. I think one thing that I've learned since I have been at Wayne State for quite a few years now is, I really care about our academic staff and faculty. I just really appreciate all the hard work that they put in and everything that they research and they teach, and it's just overwhelming and fun to be part of that. Really, in my whole life, I've always just loved to help people.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I love to think through things and problem solve. Every year that I've been on campus has gotten better. Every year, no matter what has happened. I mean, unfortunately we've had a pandemic that we have had to deal with, but it's still better because I see amazing things happening on our campus, even through such hardship. I guess I would also love to add that I like listening and thinking through things with people. Sometimes we won't find an answer right away, but I love thinking through things, starting the conversation, bringing about awareness, and that's something that I'm really looking forward to within this added role.

Annmarie Caño:

Great, and I know a lot of people are excited to see what you come up with, and the collaborations that you develop. I know I'm looking forward to learning more from afar about all the wonderful things that you do, including taking over the podcast. I'm definitely going to be tuning in to seasons three and four and et cetera. One of the things I have appreciated about your leadership, watching you and working with you, is something that I mentioned in the introduction, which is your collaborative and compassionate approach. You have talked about that with me in terms of kindness and the importance of leaders being kind. I wonder if you could say a little bit more about why that's so important to you and how that looks when you work with a team?

Dr. Sara Kacin:

Definitely. I mean, I was even in an interview this morning and that was one of the questions that I asked. I do find it a remarkable core value to think through and talk through about what kindness is and how that might look. If we're kind in all of our meetings, if we're kind in just interactions that we have, it goes a lot longer way. So most of it is to kind of build out proactively.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

So for example, if I approach things with a lens of kindness, I don't have to love everybody at one time. I can not always agree with somebody, but I will respectfully and kindfully have conversations with them and talk through things, but we don't always have to be on the same page. I think that's very helpful because a lot of what... with my role with the OTL is we design a lot of events for faculty and we do a lot of programming and I really believe that that needs to be a collaborative design.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I think we make better things if we're thinking through it together. So if we have disagreements, just knowing that we're all approaching this, not trying to harm one another or anything in that regard, things go a lot smoother and we produce really fun things and we have fun doing it too. So I think that's part why that's such a value to me, and I just think it goes a long way. I've talked with people from the past and they'll come back and say little things that I didn't quite realize had such an important impact on their lives.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

They'll say, "Oh, I didn't know you and you stopped me in the hallway and said, 'Are you okay?'" Or something like that. A lot of those past experiences derive from that. So it sounds very, very simple, but it's a value that I hold very, very dear. I think that it resonates with a lot of people on campus, as far as discussions that we have. I would add the kindness and that we're all coming together for the same goal, so we can get to that goal together.

Annmarie Caño:

It builds trust with other people, but it also helps remind people that we're all here for the same reason, right? We want to support students. We value education. There may be other side values that feed into that, but we value the same thing, and therefore I value you as my partner in crime or partner in education. So you have a large and active team, and then you have... So you have this formal team and then you have a team of faculty and staff that you work with, maybe more informally, whether it's committee members or people who are involved in OTL programming.

Annmarie Caño:

I wonder if you could answer the question, this is a question we ask everybody on the podcast, which is, what does it mean to empower someone to lead? So you're the leader, but there are all these other people around you. What does it mean to empower them to lead?

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I think two things come to mind and the first one being that it's sharing voices near and far, and extending them. Not everybody feels like they have a voice that can be heard. I have felt that way in the past, and I feel like everybody should feel like their voice should be heard. So I think empowering people by teaching them the skills, working with them, whatever context it might be in, to know that this is definitely okay for you to share your thoughts and concerns at any point in your career span at Wayne State.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

One of the really, really amazing things that has happened most recently was, when everything happened and we were... "Okay, move online immediately." OTL is not the smallest staff in the world, but it's not exactly huge either. One of the most rewarding moments in my life was when we sent out a call to faculty and academic staff on campus, and we said, "Please, please help us. You have been teaching online or you are even three weeks more knowledgeable about online." No, I'm just kidding. No, "But you're somewhat more knowledgeable online than many of us on campus." We had over 50 volunteers. We empowered those volunteers in many ways. We said, "Here's a selection of ways that we would truly appreciate. Can you review this guide?" You could self-select into what you wanted to participate.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

We had so many that we actually, at that time, couldn't use them all. So now we are able to incorporate and use people and their strengths where they identified as, "Hey, I'm really good speaking in a webinar. You know, I really have an eye for reviewing things." That was really quite a defining moment, not just for me, but for all of OTL. I mean, there were some really wonderful moments and discussions around how amazing our campus is. I would also say it's also important for me to think through this with the OTL as well, as far as allowing them the opportunity to share ideas and be who they are in any space that they are, so that flexibility and that safety and comfortableness, I also view that as something that's empowering people to be who they are, to lead with their strengths, also another important value as well.

Annmarie Caño:

Thank you.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

So on that note, Annmarie, I think it might be a good time to turn the corner and allow me to ask you a few questions as well, if you're okay with that.

Annmarie Caño:

Okay. Sounds great.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

So thinking about empowerment, what kinds of lessons have you learned that empower those to lead? So you've had two seasons with the podcast. What are some of those lessons learned that you have, that you could share with all of us?

Annmarie Caño:

I have been so inspired and impressed by the guests of the last two seasons, in ways that I think I'm still processing and digesting. There's certain conversations that kind of stayed with me. One of the early episodes in season one was with Geralyn Stephens in the College of Education, faculty member in the College of Education. She had such wise words that I think are important for all of us, especially when we're in the thick of things like we are right now, in the middle of a pandemic.

Annmarie Caño:

Everyone is just trying to care of things right now, and you're not thinking about sometimes. You're not thinking about the future because you're just so occupied with the day to day. That was true for me when I interviewed her, even though we were not in a pandemic, it was just like, go, go, go in the office, planning things. But she had asked a question or made an observation about, you should know your destination, and almost like you should know when it's time to move on. Some people may have listened to that as a way of... Know when it's time to retire. But really, I think all of us can listen to that particular lesson of, when have you accomplished what you set out to accomplish and when is it time to try something new?

Annmarie Caño:

At the time that I was interviewing her, I was thinking about putting my letter in for the job that I'm going to. It really stuck with me in terms of, you can be satisfied and happy with the work that you're doing, which I have been at Wayne State. It's been a wonderful place to grow a career and to help other people, as you said, empower other people. At the same time, it's good to think about what it is that you value and how you can make a difference. That may not be in the same place or in the same role that you're currently in.

Annmarie Caño:

That does not mean that you're leaving because you're upset with things or you're running away from anything, but it's to really think about your values and where you can serve the best in your most authentic way. That episode really kind of struck me in that way. Some of the other episodes, especially the dynamic duo episodes, where we had two guests, those really taught me about the sense of humor and joy and fun that leadership can embrace. Leadership is not about being serious all the time, although sometimes you do have very difficult decisions to make, but you can have fun in your leadership role. It's just fun being with other people and working on a common goal. So that was another piece of leadership lessons that I learned.

Annmarie Caño:

Another theme, this theme came up, I think, in almost every podcast episode, was the importance of relationships and building relationships, not just to get a task done, but to actually get to know somebody. Sometimes in the act of getting to know someone, you learn about yourself. You learn about what makes you tick, maybe what pushes your button. Just because sometimes you work with somebody and it's difficult to work with them, that may say as much about you as it does about the other person or about the task. So really being able to value those relationships, even if they can be difficult relationships, that was another piece or a thread that ran through several of the podcasts that I feel like I knew in one sense, because I'm a relationships researcher, but it really came out.

Annmarie Caño:

I learned more by doing the interviews with people. And then the importance of failure and risk. So I think the provost talked about this too, and he's talked about this in senior staff meetings, as you know, that if you're not failing at one point or another, you're not thinking big enough. If you're not risking something, then you're limiting yourself. That means you're limiting other people and you're limiting the good that you can do in the world.

Annmarie Caño:

That is another leadership lesson that came out in many of the episodes where people talked about risk, healthy risk, not endangering people, but healthy risk as a way to learn and to advance the cause and to create new opportunities for people. Sometimes, that risk is empowering other people to lead, because it could be that they might leave because they've been empowered, or they might progress up the ladder, and you lose a team member, but for good reason, so that risk is part of empowering others and empowering yourself. Those are some... I could go through each and every one, but then that's going to be a whole nother podcast.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I think some of your summary of advancing the cause with having fun, and it's okay to take risks and learn along the way, have been extremely helpful to many of us on campus. So thinking about that, a question I thought of was, as you move along and you're into your next position, what are some things that you're going to share with your new colleagues about Wayne State?

Annmarie Caño:

Well, that's a good question. I feel like I've already started doing that because when I was on my interview, there were a lot of questions from people saying, "Wayne State's a very different place from Gonzaga University. One's public, one's private, one's a research one institution, the other one is a primarily undergrad teaching institution. "Where did you come from and why are you interested in this job?"

Annmarie Caño:

But to me, the mission of the two institutions is very similar. That's one thing that I've already been sharing that I will continue to share is the awesome mission that Wayne State University has in the city of Detroit, in Southeast Michigan, being able to serve the community on multiple levels, both the students, but also community members, and then also globally.

Annmarie Caño:

The commitment to empowering other people and to social mobility among students and the community, it's a very powerful mission. Like you, I've seen it. I've seen faculty, I've seen academic staff, I've seen other staff and administrators really embody that mission and do all they can to support students and the community in these amazing ways. That piece, I'm definitely going to be taking. I will be shouting that from the rooftops, wherever I go.

Annmarie Caño:

The other piece is I have been personally enriched by the people of Wayne State. From the time I was a lecturer, assistant professor, the kindnesses that people have shown me and the support in my career ,when people didn't have to pay attention to that at all, the generosity of spirit among the faculty in sharing materials, whether it's for promotion and tenure or syllabi, that has been a very wonderful experience that I will treasure and share.

Annmarie Caño:

Then our students; sometimes when people leave an institution, they can say, "I've taught this many thousands of students." I don't know how many students I've taught. I probably could calculate a rough calculation, but I've learned so much from the students, whether it's being in the classroom or in my lab or giving seminars, as a first generation college student myself, I identified with many of the students having that kind of experience, but the diversity of our student body, whether it's race, culture, religion, LGBT, the varying gifts that our students bring to campus and share with the rest of us has been... I can't even... I don't have words for it. It's been very beautiful in terms of teaching me how to be a better person, how to be a better teacher, a better researcher. Without that experience at Wayne State, I would be a different person. I think that's what I would share.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

Well, I think if we were... as we have talked to some faculty, they would say that having you in this role for the past couple years has been very beautiful for them as well. One of the things that you hear is that "I felt like I could be myself with Annmarie", and that's one thing... You and I have been working together since you started this position. We felt right away that there needed to be a close collaboration between both spaces, and so keeping that in mind, one of the things that you also shared from me right from the beginning is, be yourself. Knowing, let's just throw it out there. I've got big shoes to fill. It's all right. Keeping that in mind, what are some parting thoughts that you might have? You know, the ones you just gave were extremely beautiful, but thinking forward, what are some parting thoughts that you might have for me, the person who is extremely motivated and energetic to keep that momentum of your hard work that you've built over the last few years, and support faculty and academic staff, the way that they want to be.

Annmarie Caño:

Well, I think you bring already so many of the qualities and the skills and experiences that I would. I would say, do more of that. The ability to listen and to welcome feedback ideas from faculty and academic staff about what they want to see, has been very important. I think for anyone transitioning into a new position, having a listening tour, so to speak, is really important. I intend to do that my next position, and I did that when I started as associate provost.

Annmarie Caño:

Being able to listen to a wide variety of voices, so that means diversity of voices in terms of race, gender, and other identities, but also roles, ranks, generations of employees, and trying to understand, what are the needs of the community, and who is willing to step up, and who has the potential? Identifying those people who have the potential to step up and share their skills, experiences, gifts with others, who might not have had an opportunity to do that before.

Annmarie Caño:

There are a number of outstanding colleagues who, for whatever reason, have not been able to participate in that way, but they are so willing. Learning who those people are and inviting them to participate in some way is key, but those are things that you already have a mindset of doing. So I feel like I'm preaching to the choir.

Dr. Sara Kacin:

Perfect. Thank you so much, Annmarie. I had a great time today.

Annmarie Caño:

Thanks so much for co-hosting with me, Sarah. Where can our listeners find you online?

Dr. Sara Kacin:

I can be found at skacin@wayne.edu.

Annmarie Caño:

We're glad to have you listening to Empower to Lead. To learn more about our podcast, follow us on Twitter @WSUFACsuccess.