Host Annmarie Caño speaks with academic leaders at Wayne State University to learn how they have developed their careers while empowering themselves and others.

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Show notes

About Geralyn Stephens

Geralyn Stephens is an associate professor of education at Wayne State University, where she is an expert in online teaching and learning. An award-winning professor, Stephens was recently inducted into Wayne State's Academy of Teachers. She also serves as Computing & Information Technology's faculty liaison for the campus learning management system.

Conversation highlights

Host Annmarie Caño begins the conversation by asking Stephens what she loves about her role at the university. For Stephens, it's interacting with students who don't necessarily have a background in career and technical education. "One of two things happens: Either they love it, or they hate it," she says, "and that's a good thing to know before you invest time and resources into a new profession." As Caño points out, "Learning takes risks."

Stephens reveals that she won the mentor jackpot by connecting with her dissertation advisor, Lola Jackson, who taught her a critical lesson. "I made a presentation one day," Stephens recalls, "and after the presentation she told me, 'If I ever hear you say 'I' again in a presentation, I will cut your tongue out. No matter if you were the only person in the group who did anything, it is always 'we,' 'us,' and the quicker you learn that, the more successful you'll be.'" It's important to make everybody feel valued for their contributions, Stephens observes. "People don't forget that," she says.

Stephens notes that there are two components to being a good mentor: First, she says, "You have to be comfortable being an 'I was' and not an 'I am.'" Second, know once you've reached your goal. As she points out, "It's very, very difficult to mentor someone if you're still running the race." Your destination might also change its course. "The expectation is that there is always a carrot out there, but sometimes it's OK not to have a carrot out there, and sometimes the carrot can be different," Stephens explains.

Caño asks Stephens for her advice on advocating for yourself, and Stephens recommends that we embrace the potential for rejection. "You'll never hear 'no' or 'yes' unless you ask," she says, "so you've got to develop the power to be comfortable with 'no' because at least when you hear 'no' it was asked, it was considered and you got a response." Developing a thicker skin will help you adapt to "no," and as Stephens points out, sometimes a "no" might lead to a "yes."

Caño brings the discussion to a close by asking what it means to empower someone to lead. "It goes back to being comfortable with 'I was,'" says Stephens, "and if you empower someone to lead, you have to be comfortable being a follower." It can be tricky for leaders to follow, but Stephens hopes that everybody recognizes their chance to pay it forward. "People who have an opportunity to give back can just step back a little bit and offer up guidance."

Additional resources

Follow EmpowerED to Lead on Twitter @WSUFacSuccess.

Transcript

Annmarie Cano:                  

Welcome to Empowered To Lead, a Wayne State University podcast for academic leaders who are committed to empowering their community to succeed. I'm your host, Annmarie Cano, Associate Provost for Faculty Development and Faculty Success at Wayne State. In this podcast, we'll explore the personal journeys of academic leaders, both current and emerging, to learn more about how they've developed their careers. We'll speak with faculty and staff about their work and how they have empowered themselves and others along the way. By doing this, we hope to empower listeners like you as you continue on your leadership path.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Today we're speaking with Dr. Geralyn E. Stephens, who is an Associate Professor Clinical in the College of Education at Wayne State. Her area of expertise relates to online teaching and learning. Geralyn has recently been inducted into Wayne State's Academy of Teachers. She is a recipient of the university's highest teaching award, the President's Award for Excellence in Teaching. She received two Blackboard Catalyst Awards for the exemplary course program and for faculty development, and she was named a Blackboard MVP. She also currently serves as computing and information technologies faculty liaison for the Canvas Learning Management System. Welcome Geralyn.

Geralyn S.:                              

Welcome to you, too. Thank you for the invitation.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Okay. Maybe we can start off with what your current role is and what you love most about it.

Geralyn S.:                              

Well, my current role, I'm an Associate Professor in the College of Education in the teacher education division. In that role, I teach courses in career and technical education, teacher preparation courses. I also direct students' master's thesis projects and essays.

Geralyn S.:                             

The things that I enjoy most about that I think is the interaction with students, especially students who are coming to teacher education without a background in career technical education. For many people, the last time that they were in a secondary classroom is when they were students themselves, so they don't have realistic views of expectations and how the world has changed and how secondary classrooms are now very, very different. So helping them and providing them with avenues to explore before they actually go to Hudson's to buy the product is something that I enjoy doing. And either one of two things happens. Either they love it or they hate it, and that's a good thing to know before you invest time and resources into a new profession.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And so learning takes risks.

Geralyn S.:                              

Oh, learning definitely takes risks. But the most critical piece of that is knowing exactly what it is you're standing in line to buy. And what happens is they have fantasies about what teaching is all about and they have fantasies as it relates to their own experiences and they don't understand the role of teachers in today's classrooms and how influential you are in the lives of young people. So I think that giving them preparations or giving them opportunities to have firsthand experiences in those classrooms before they make a financial commitment is very, very important, and I think that's the foundation for what I try to do.

Annmarie Cano:                  

In my role in faculty and staff development, I speak to a lot of people, and so they mention what a great instructor you are, curriculum developer, but they also say what an outstanding mentor you are to them as junior professionals who are learning how to teach, learning how to construct curriculum, how to navigate all the different learning management systems that come and go. And I wonder if you could say a bit about your own experience being mentored along the way and what kinds of lessons you may have learned.

Geralyn S.:                              

Oh, mentoring. I think I had one of the best mentors ever. Her name was Dr. Lola Jackson. She was my dissertation advisor as well as a mentor. And I'll give you an example of one of the things that she taught me. The difference between I, me, and my. I made a presentation one day and after the presentation she told me, she says, "If I ever hear you say 'I' again in a presentation, I will cut your tongue out."

Annmarie Cano:                  

Oh.

Geralyn S.:                              

And I was like, "Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. What was that all about?" She says, "No matter if you were the only person in the group that did anything, it is always 'we, us.' There is no 'I' in team, and the quicker you learn that the more successful you will be." Well, I had never heard it put that way. And many times mentors are, well, many people are afraid to be honest with people, and you have to be honest in order to give the mentee or to give ... If you're being mentored to allow the mentor to be frank with you, because the more frank with you they are, the more tools you'll be able to add to your toolkit in order to be successful moving forward.

Geralyn S.:                              

From that day to this day it is always "we" and "my team" and "the team." There is no "I." There is always "us" and what we did. Even if nobody did anything, it's always "we," and the biggest thing is to make sure that other people feel good about the contributions no matter how big or how small, because it couldn't have happened without everybody.

Annmarie Cano:                 

So making sure everyone is valued for their contributions and recognized.

Geralyn S.:                              

Making sure everyone feels value.

Annmarie Cano:                  

They feel valued.

Geralyn S.:                              

You can say, "Oh, you are valued," but you may not do things that help that person feel valued. So the operative is making sure you make the other people feel valued.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And so how do you assess that, whether they feel valued?

Geralyn S.:                              

Oh, they'll let you know. They will let you know. They will. And it comes from a level of sincerity and the level of sincerity comes from security within yourself. You're not in competition with them. We're all successful. So you're not in competition, and as long as they understand that we're all on the team together and everybody has a value part, no matter how big or small that part is, we all have a role to play and everybody's role is real important.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Here's a question, because I've heard competing advice about, let's say, presenting, especially for women and people from underrepresented groups to own and claim their work when they give a presentation, let's say for a job. That they will be taken more seriously if they say "I" versus "we." And because the thought is if someone says, "We did this work," the audience is going to say, "Oh, she wasn't the one who was really a mover and shaker on the project. This is her advisor's work," or that kind of thing. What do you think about that perspective?

Geralyn S.:                              

There's another field the thought about that, and I don't need to toot my own horn. I don't need to toot my own horn. My work speaks for itself, and there will be opportunities for you to clarify or to highlight various aspects of it. But in a general form, again, it goes back to making everyone feel valued and feel a part of that, because the same people you see going up are the same people you see going down. And it happens. It happens to all of us, and hopefully as you're going down, there'll be people who will help soften some of those bumps that you hit on the going down, because you go up but then you come down and you go up again, you come down again. So you meet people along those levels up and down. So the more stronger you're viewed and respected, the less harsh those bumps coming down or lateral bumps will be because you'll have people there who support you because of how you made them feel.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Because you extended some grace to them ...

Geralyn S.:                              

Yes.

Annmarie Cano:                  

... and now they want to extend some grace to you.

Geralyn S.:                              

People don't forget that. People don't forget that.

Annmarie Cano:                  

True. In leadership, then, part of being a leader is making sure other people feel valued and working effectively as a team. What about for people who are growing into the mentorship role and are wanting to be better mentors? Maybe they're already great mentors and they lead as mentors, they're known as mentors as you are. What other kinds of advice would you give to that person who's seeking to be a better mentor and maybe they're looking for things to read or ways to reflect on their practice?

Geralyn S.:                              

Well, there are two critical components to being a good mentor. One is you have to be comfortable being an "I was" and not an "I am," because at that point the "I was" is a past tense and you're comfortable moving on, moving on. And when moving on, it's not so much about what you accomplish, it's what you leave behind. And you are reflected in your mentee, so you have to learn to separate yourself from that and learn that your role is very, very different.

Geralyn S.:                              

The second piece is knowing when you have reached your destination. We all start out on a career path or on a career road. When do you get there and will you know? So as a mentor, it's very, very difficult for you to mentor someone and you're still running the race. So at some point you have to decide, "I have reached my goal." And at that point when you have reached your goal, then it's much easier to reach back and help someone achieve their goal, especially if they're working along the same path that you've already been on. But you can't run the race and be in competition with the other runner. So it's important to know when you have reached your destination and be very comfortable with being an "I was" and no longer being an "I am."

Annmarie Cano:                  

I'm having all kinds of thoughts right now, but one of them is, so part of it is what's your legacy? What do you want your legacy to be in your work? So in terms of thinking about mentoring and that for people who are not yet done and they haven't yet reached their goal, there's still time to think about what is it that I want to leave behind for other people to build on or to set, prepare the foundation for these other people to be successful? It seems like part of sometimes what happens with leaders, informal and formal leaders, is that they don't really think about that. What am I ... How is my work preparing the ground for the next set of leaders in a positive way? They're very focused on the present and the future of their own careers.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And the other piece was that how many leaders never really think about what their destination is?

Geralyn S.:                              

No, because they're too busy running the race.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Yeah. And they either they're running or they're floating or just waiting for the next opportunity or they're not reflecting on what it is, what their ideal destination would be, and they may not ever achieve it. But just to think about, "What is my destination?" I think that's ... I'm going to have to reflect on that for myself, but I do think that that's something that leaders spend very little time thinking about.

Geralyn S.:                              

We're not trained to think like that.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Right.

Geralyn S.:                              

We're not trained to think like that. We're trained to think about reaching this level and reaching that level, but nobody ever talks to you about, well, what happens when you do? Because the expectation is that there's always a carrot out there, but sometimes it's okay not to have a carrot out there, and of course sometimes the carrot can be different. The carrot can be being a role model or being, when you talk about mentoring, being able to provide someone else with the next step on their rung, which is a reflection of you.

Geralyn S.:                             

So when you talk about what is the legacy, the legacy ... There are two things that I would like to be known for, and number one is that the people that I work with, the mentees that I have, always strive to be the best that they can be. You always operate at 150%. Not 110%. 150%. You always push yourself to your limit, because once you walk away from it, you know you have done the best job you can do. And my attitude has always been, if it was wrong, it was the best wrong I could give you. The best wrong I could give you, because I put 120%, 130% into everything that I did.

Geralyn S.:                              

So helping them to understand that when you do that, you walk away satisfied and it's not a satisfaction that somebody else. It's an intrinsic satisfaction. You know. So if I can give that or help someone understand that that intrinsic pleasure, that intrinsic pleasure knowing that you gave it your all, no matter what it turns out to be, it's okay. It's okay.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Yeah. And that's another message we don't get often.

Geralyn S.:                              

Right. Part of what in the course that I teach, [inaudible 00:14:03] the research course, I tell my students all the time, "It is very valuable to know it didn't work." And they go, "Huh?" It's very valuable to know it didn't work, because if we find out that it didn't work, then nobody will replicate that and try to do it again.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Right. They won't waste their time.

Geralyn S.:                              

They won't waste their time, effort, or money. Oh, so it's okay.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Yeah. Which is the whole movement behind publishing null results in academic journals.

Geralyn S.:                              

Correct.

Annmarie Cano:                  

You're right. To be able to say, "We tried it. This is how we did it. Don't do that again."

Geralyn S.:                              

Right, right. And if nobody ever does that, then you've got all these people spinning their wheels trying to replicate something that we already know is going to fail. That's dumb.

Annmarie Cano:                  

So talking about your leadership trajectory, both in and outside of Wayne State, has there ever been a time where you ran up against something that was disappointing or challenging, but you learned something about yourself that you might want to share with listeners?

Geralyn S.:                              

Being black and female at Wayne State University for the past 25, almost 30 years, I've run into a whole lot of things. However, I will not be specific. I will just say that going back to my previous premise about giving it 150% all the time because that's an intrinsic value. That is not anything that had to do outside. So when an opportunity presented itself, I was always prepared and I was prepared, not so much because I was shooting for that target. I was prepared because everything I did, I did it at a high level with a spirit of excellence, with a spirit of perfection.

Geralyn S.:                              

And that's not to say it was always perfect, but it was the best job I could do. So I got a reputation for, first of all, putting my efforts, putting all of my efforts into it, and for getting things to completion, getting people to work with me to get it done. So those are the kinds of things that are immeasurable, or maybe they're measurable, but those are the kinds of things that other people observe about you, and that's where your opportunities come. People are watching you when you're not watching yourself.

Annmarie Cano:                  

That's absolutely true.

Geralyn S.:                             

So if you have intrinsic kinds of things and that's just who you are, people learn that about you and word gets around that that's how you are. And then you end up-

Annmarie Cano:                  

And then you end up on a podcast.

Geralyn S.:                              

There you go. Or you end up at the dean's reception giving words, and it's like, "Really? You want me to talk? Oh, okay. That's going to be interesting." But it took me by surprise, and the things that he said is like I'm looking around like, "Who? Who is he talking about? Is he talking about me?" Because that was not ever the effort and what he saw and what he said was who I am. And anybody who knows me, "Yep, that's her. Yep, that's her." But that's who I am.

Annmarie Cano:                  

So being real to yourself and knowing your values, knowing what's important, and living, using that as your compass versus external reward systems or other-

Geralyn S.:                              

The external reward systems. If you are true to yourself and you have a high degree of expectations of excellence from yourself and you give it your best shot all the time, other people ... You can't help but, because your drive is you. Your drive is you.

Geralyn S.:                              

I'll give you an example of just how that plays on all aspects of my life. I made an Easter dress. It is absolutely gorgeous. It is a brocade that's a reversible brocade. Well, I struggled with the bodice. Well, I got it all together. I contacted a friend of mine who's a professional seamstress and she worked with me on it, and it came out okay. Nobody will notice that it's a few problems with it but the two of us. However, I've been struggling with that since Easter. I'm trying to figure out what did we do wrong? I couldn't figure it out. So I remade the garment.

Annmarie Cano:                 

Oh my.

Geralyn S.:                              

I remade the garment with different fabric and I figured out what the problem was. The problem was the type of interfacing I used in the first garment. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but you know what the struggle is now?

Annmarie Cano:                  

Mm-mm (negative).

Geralyn S.:                              

Do I go back and redo that dress? That's the struggle, only because I know what the problem is. I know how to fix the problem.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And you want perfection.

Geralyn S.:                              

And I want perfection, not for anybody else but me. So I'm trying real hard not to go to [inaudible 00:18:47] and buy a half a yard of fabric to remake that bodice, because I may only wear it ... It's an Easter dress. It's a real fancy dress. I'm maybe wear it maybe once or twice more in my life. But the issue is not the Easter dress. The issue is making ... I know now what's wrong with the bodice, and I can fix it. So the issue is do I?

Annmarie Cano:                  

Right. Well, you'll have to report back to us or send us a picture next Easter. Something we were talking about before we started recording was this concept of asking for what you want. And this is something that we don't always do, especially people who are looking at maybe stretching their leadership a bit and maybe thinking that nobody's actually watching them, that they have to advocate for themselves, but they are kind of afraid to do it. What kind of advice do you have about this idea of people saying, `"Hey, you know what I want? I would like to have this leadership role or I would like to be the lead on this project." What kind of advice would you have for someone who's a little skittish about that?

Geralyn S.:                              

One of the things in life that happens on a regular basis is that someone will tell you no and it's okay, but you'll never hear no or yes unless you ask. So you've got to develop the power to be comfortable with no, because at least when you hear no, you asked. It was considered and you got a response. If you don't ask, you can't be considered. You can't get a response and you'll never know what would have happened. So you present your own obstacles. You created your own obstacles. Why would do that? All because you're afraid of what? No.

Annmarie Cano:                  

How do people practice this? Getting used to being told no, if they haven't asked before?

Geralyn S.:                              

As scholars, we are told no a lot. Every time you submit a publication, you run the risk of somebody saying no, and you learn to live with that. You don't stop writing. You don't. You may not send it to that journal again, and sometimes they'll tell you, ?Don't send it to us anymore." Been there, done that, too. But it's practice building up that thick skin.

Annmarie Cano:                  

So it's almost kind of remembering that we're rejected all the time ...

Geralyn S.:                              

All the time.

Annmarie Cano:                  

... instead of thinking of rejections as very different things. And I'm using the term rejection, because it kind of sounds a little shocking and unpleasant.

Geralyn S.:                              

That's the term that is used in academia, but it really isn't.

Annmarie Cano:                  

It's just no.

Geralyn S.:                              

It's just no. It's just no.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Yeah. And so if we could just say, "It's just no. What's the big deal?"

Geralyn S.:                              

What's the big deal?

Annmarie Cano:                  

And do a little bit of cognitive reframing.

Geralyn S.:                              

And you learn to adapt to no. When the publisher sends it back, the editor sends it back and it says no, the first day or two you walk around and you're kicking yourself of how much work you put into it. Oh, woe is me. Oh, woe is me. You" pick it up and then you go, "I have too many hours invested in this. Somebody is going to publish this." So then you start a whole another process. But the process would not have started at all if you hadn't written the first word and submitted it to somebody for them to say no.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And I'm starting to think of no as really, "No, not yet," or, "No, not this place," or, "No, not this position."

Geralyn S.:                              

Correct.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And so it's never the final say.

Geralyn S.:                              

Well, I'll give you an example. Several years ago, this was I'd say 2011, 2012. I was on my head to leave Wayne State. I interviewed and I was the final candidate for three different positions. Three. The final candidate. I'm waiting by the phone for the phone call to ring. I was interviewing for an Assistant Dean at Oakland Community College, one of their campuses, one of their big campuses where they do lots of career and technical stuff. The campus president told me, "I am recommending you for the job."

Geralyn S.:                              

So two weeks later I finally get a call from Oakland University and I see the caller ID. Oakland. Not Oakland University. Oakland Community College. I see on the caller ID Oakland Community College. I'm all excited. I know this is it. So I answer the phone. "Hello." She says, Is this Geralyn?" I said, "Yes, this is Geralyn." She said, "Well, I'm calling to let you know the position that you interviewed for, we have decided not to fill it." I said, "Oh, okay." So the answer was yes, but it was no. That was one.

Geralyn S.:                              

Then there was a position at Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois. Oh, final candidate. They called my dean. Everything was all set. I get a phone call from them. "We decided to go in a different direction." Two. Okay. They never did fill that position. So those are two examples.

Geralyn S.:                              

And there was a third one. I can't remember the third one. Well, the long story short, I came back to campus. I'll never forget it. It was Janice Green, my assistant dean, and me. And I said, "Let me tell you something. I have empirical evidence that I am supposed to be at Wayne State University. So you all better watch the hell out." That was empirical evidence for me, because there was nothing logical about what happened, nothing logical. And they were all yeses, but they were all nos. So, okay, apparently, and I guess it was the way that I processed it was that yes, you are competent and qualified to do all these things, but not now. There are other things where you are that need to be done or that will happen for you. At that point in time, I could not see this day. I couldn't see the things that happened after that.

Geralyn S.:                              

So that was in the spring of 2012. In the spring of 2013, I got promoted. I won President's Award for Excellence in Teaching. I won a Blackboard. It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Everybody kept asking me to play the lottery, because things were happening. All that work, all that intensity, all that effort manifested itself at that time. It would not have happened at Oakland Community College. It would not have happened at Bradley University. It could only have happened where? Wayne State University.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And we're so glad that you're here and that you got the "not yets," but it does show how what may seem like a disappointment at one point of time, the story is never finished. That there's more to come and it takes patience and fortitude to be able to kind of-

Geralyn S.:                             

...the internal commitment. The internal commitment. Yes, I could have been discouraged, but I think now, can you imagine commuting back and forth to Peoria? That would not be fun.

Annmarie Cano:                  

No.

Geralyn S.:                              

And all the changes that have happened at the community college since that time and all the great things that have happened here at Wayne State University since that time.

Annmarie Cano:                  

And so it's we're kind of living in a mystery even while we're making these decisions ...

Geralyn S.:                              

Correct. Correct.

Annmarie Cano:                  

... and asking for things and then experiencing disappointments ...

Geralyn S.:                              

Correct.

Annmarie Cano:                  

... but it's never the end.

Geralyn S.:                              

No. And because you always operate at a high level of excellence, you're prepared for anything whenever it happens.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Great. So one of the questions we ask all our guests is what does it mean to empower someone else to lead? And I'm wondering if you could share your thoughts on what that means to you.

Geralyn S.:                              

Empower someone else to lead goes back to being comfortable with I was. And if you empower someone else to lead, you have to be comfortable being a follower. And many people, because they've led for so long, it's hard to follow. In my role at CNIT, even though I have what can be construed as a leadership role, I serve as a consultant. So in many capacities, I'm a follower. I make recommendations, but whichever direction they decide to go in, I'm their biggest cheerleader. I'm the follower.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Is there anything else that you'd like to share about leadership and leadership qualities?

Geralyn S.:                              

I would hope that those who have an opportunity to give back make a commitment to doing that, because just like Lola helped me and she continues to help me to this day, I can pick up the phone and call her about anything and she will give me insight and there are things that she knows that there's no way I would know.

Geralyn S.:                              

So I think that people who have an opportunity to give back, if they could just step back a little bit and offer up guidance, because it's like I play golf, and one of the women that I play golf with, she just knows everything. So, okay. So she was lined up to hit the ball and she was lined ... The way she lined herself up, she would have hit the ball in the woods. So I'm standing there and I'm watching her and I was like, well, do I tell her or do I let her hit the ball in the woods? So do I tell her or do I let her hit the ball in the woods?

Geralyn S.:                              

She's standing there. She's positioning, and do I tell her or do I let her hit the ball in the woods? Because she'll never know that I knew. She'll never know. I know, but she'll never know. I made the choice to tell her, "You're lined up wrong." Did she move? No, she didn't move. Okay. I had done my part, and when she hit the ball and it went in the woods, she turned around. "How did you know that?" Okay. But I left with my own level of integrity, which was to share that information. What she did with it was on her. She hit the ball in the woods because she refused to move. But she had the information before she swung the club.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Who won the the match?

Geralyn S.:                              

I did. I did.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Well, thanks so much for sharing your insights, Geralyn. It's been a pleasure to have you here.

Geralyn S.:                              

Thank you again for providing me with this opportunity to at this point in my journey, that is what it's all about. Making sure that I can reach back and maybe say a few words or help someone along the way to help smooth out the path a little bit for someone. Even if they decide not to move, at least I've shared the information.

Annmarie Cano:                  

Well, thank you. Where can our listeners find you online?

Geralyn S.:                              

I'm not very much online anymore, and they can contact you and you can contact me.

Annmarie Cano:                  

All right. Fair enough. Thank you.

Annmarie Cano:                  

We're glad to have you listening to empowered to lead. To learn more about our podcast. Follow us on Twitter at wsufacsuccess.